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Post by kdog on Dec 3, 2016 11:13:48 GMT -7
Don't really have a Dog in this fight as the Dog only races locally these days, but Al has a good point. The Dog lobbied for years for our local club to allow all Pancake based chassis to run together if anything the 4-gear is the underdog. T Jets can easily be made to run with AFX style chassis. Since we made the change we are having more fun than ever, the racers like it because it opens up many more of their favorite bodys.
Not trying to interfere but saw the post and thought I would share our local experience.
Dog
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Post by SKR on Dec 3, 2016 11:19:04 GMT -7
Al, good point on the brushes. I'll update a few of the classes that will specify motor brushes/springs.
Jeff, It's an open event for pancake chassis. It's up to the racers if they want to bring a knife to a gun fight.
should I scrap the rules idea and just leave it up the race host to post and provide their own rules? I'm ok with that as well. Please respond, it'll not hurt my feelings either way.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2016 12:02:13 GMT -7
All due respect Al, but I don't see how allowing all pancake chassis types to race together is going to work. I mean a similarly built Tjet chassis is not going to run the same as a 4 gear or an Xtraction. In the end it is up to the racer as to what chassis they want to build. But if I wanted to have a chance at winning I wouldn't run a 4 gear, so why even allow it? Instead of apples to apples it would be like apples to pears. It's your event so it really doesn't matter what I think. Maybe I will learn something here. As far as lexan...I personally won't be running any lexan bodies here. Jeff, as in many forms of competition .... what works best is what folks use. racing inline drag cars and 1/24 drag cars for a several decades now, chassis and motor preferences have advanced and changed. in pancake, I have a builder who has made t-jets with all the same components faster than AFX. so, chassis choice is up to the racer. I respect your opinions and thank you greatly for adding to the conversation. there are no wrong answers. |
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Post by AJR on Dec 3, 2016 12:32:34 GMT -7
Sorry guys....it just doesn't compute with me. I understand there are exceptions. But like I said it doesn't matter what I think. I don't have the decades of experience that others do. Since I feel opinionated today.....I am not in favor of Racemaster only rules format. I think there has to be some type of guidelines.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2016 12:59:02 GMT -7
Snow Fest 2017 cancelled.
Y'all enjoy yerselves.
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Post by nosubfor3 on Dec 3, 2016 13:06:08 GMT -7
First. I don't see a stock 14 ohm t-jet being competitive with a stock 14 ohm Non-Magnatraction. Could be wrong I'll have to test it out.
Second. I fell we need a base line for all class's. Not race master choice. Some of us have parts to be spontaneous with this type of choice. Some of us do not.
Third. Depending on the voltage wheelie bars are a must no matter how much down force your traction magnets can produce.
Fourth. Lexan body's are a pain in the "S" to paint. You need to purchase lexan paint at about $8.00 a can. Not very cheep.I'm with JJ on the lexan issue.
Fifth. A stock 6 ohm SG+ is dominate over any Tyco,Life Like,AW Super III etc with a 6 ohm.
Bodies should most definitely be drag race inspired.
Finally I'm good with what ever is finalize. I will be more selective as to what class's I race.
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Post by dave632 on Dec 3, 2016 13:12:50 GMT -7
Since we are discussing this I personally think a T jet chassis can run just as quick as a 3 gear AFX or AW chassis with certain mods. I have 2 now that are quicker than the truck that won the PSO class and the only difference is poly magnets which are good for only about 01-.02 in ET and no improvement in mph. At my races I would allow them to run together in the comp and upper classes where the different chassis would match up well with gear changes etc.
Now 4 gears are a different story. My quickest 4 gear with the same mods as my quickest 3 gear is a no contest. I would estimate a full .1 quicker. That said I don't think we should restrict someone who wants to run one against the 3 gears should be stopped, in the case of new racers it may be all they have, I allowed it in my last race and several entries were 4 gears in the SS and PSO class. In a 4 gear only class it seems that should only be for 4 gear chassis.
Lexan is the stuff they make bulletproof glass out of. It is what I used to have on my 1/1 race cars as it does not shatter and is much stronger and lighter than glass. It will crack if you hit it hard enough but as Al said it is pretty durable. Some of the cheap vacuum formed Styrene plastic used to make clear bodies is pretty weak and that will crack easily. Still I feel Lexan should be limited to the Unlimited cars not counting the FED class which has traditionally been plastic or resin bodies.
I think each Racemaster should have SOME latitude on what will be allowed at their race.
Al allows all racers to put wheelie bars on their cars in all classes and as they are cheap, easy to install and remove I see no problem with that. Personally I vote for no restriction on them even though it is not stock it adds stability to the cars and avoids de slots. Maybe only in a pure stock class have a restriction.
I have never tried a wet brush or just a spring so I leave that to others who have tried it to restrict it.
I think there should be some basic rules setup. I like the rules Sam has come up with and maybe a few tweaks here and there will make everyone happy Having everyone make up their own rules would lead to chaos. A little latitude with certain things by each Racemaster should be allowed in my opinion.
Jeff I will schedule my April race at least a month after your race to allow racers to get their cars back and tune them, etc.
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Post by SKR on Dec 3, 2016 13:47:25 GMT -7
alright, looks like we are getting somewhere 
So what I'm reading is:
- General rules are needed with the race host being able to tweak as he wants. I'm good with that.
- Wheelie bars should be allowed in every class, I'm fine with that
- Open pancake class allowing all variation of pancake chassis to compete in is a good idea but isn't fair to the 4G chassis. I agree but not every race host has to have an open pancake chassis event. A race host could just have a specific chassis race (which is most likely) or make it "racers choice". Like someone said, a racer might want to compete with a 4G knowing they'd most likely be out performed. I don't see the issue here but will go with the majority.
What else fellas? Lets get er' hammered out.
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Post by SKR on Dec 3, 2016 13:50:57 GMT -7
forgot to mention that Lexan really shouldn't be that big of a deal in an unlimited class that specifies that it is allowed. How often have we ran a class like this? Zero that I know of and if it was legal, nobody has ever sent one to a race that I know of. So let's leave the lexan topic out for now.
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Post by AJR on Dec 3, 2016 14:21:38 GMT -7
Jeff I will schedule my April race at least a month after your race to allow racers to get their cars back and tune them, etc. Dave you have a PM. |
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Post by dave632 on Dec 3, 2016 19:58:21 GMT -7
Looks like we are ironing things out.
I held an Unlimited Outlaw race at NS way back in early 2015. Only a few entries. It was scary running cars that fast and trying to stop them in a short distance.
I figured out a good stopping system then ran one at SCI in early 2016 with several entries. Cars were hitting over 60 by then with no damage to either Lexan or Plastic bodies. If there is interest I will run that class in April. A plastic bodied car won the Outlaw race both times over some Lexan entries. Like Sam said not to many interested in the class anyway and it is not that important.
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Post by dave632 on Dec 3, 2016 20:07:34 GMT -7
This has little to do with rules but I wanted to show this T jet vs the AFX Super Tire Truck race. This was my son Dave Jr's 67 Camaro, it is prepared the same as the truck except for better motor magnets. No prep was done to the cars or track, they were just dumped out there and run. Notice the Camaro has the better 60' and early times but the truck out MPH's the car. When watching the race the Camaro gets a 2-3 car jump out of the hole then the Truck starts to catch up quickly at the finish with almost 2 mph more speed. The stronger magnets actually drag the speed of the car down. If I put ceramic type magnets in the car its ET drops off slightly and speed picks up. I want to add that the T jet does not use the stock 9 tooth pinion but all other gears are stock in both cars.  Dave Jrs. 67 Camaro vs Super Tire Truck |
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Post by kiwidave on Dec 4, 2016 2:46:58 GMT -7
So does this mean I could run a Doorslammer Comp class, 14.5 ohm? Or say a Gasser Comp class, also 14.5 ohm?
We currently give the racemasters the call on voltage. Can we discuss a voltage for stock classes?
I like the no restriction on wheels but do we need a tire size restriction on some classes?
Are all tracks black tire tracks. My preference is black tires.
Just throwing these points out there for discussion!!
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Post by SKR on Dec 4, 2016 4:53:29 GMT -7
that is correct Dave. You could run 14.5 ohm comp class with those body styles.
I think class voltage is a great topic for discussion. Suggestions? The only one I have is to standardize our Pro Street Outlaw class (PSO) at 18V for all events.
Tire diameter; My thought was to see how it plays out this year by leaving it unrestricted.
I also prefer black tires but think this one should be left up to the race host.
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Post by SKR on Dec 4, 2016 5:08:00 GMT -7
Dave632, I often think about starting a Drag Racing 101 category on how different parts make the cars react such as your magnet comparison. That's a good example on how your stronger magnet vs. a weaker magnet effects the car down low and at the top end. Different thread topics could include gear ratios, tire size, magnet grades etc........ just to have basic info on car set ups. Guys let me know if there would be interest in this and I'll add a new category down by tech tips.
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